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    《亚洲法律顾问》专访:关于蒋勇的那些事
    CQLSW.NET   2018-08-25   信息来源:天同诉讼圈   作者:《亚洲法律顾问》
    核心提示:《亚洲法律顾问》的Patrick Dransfield有机会拜访了天同在北京紫禁城边美丽安静的中国传统四合院,采访了天同首席合伙人蒋勇,代表公司法务向他提出了一些问题。

    原文刊登于ASIAN-MENA COUNSELVolume 15 Issue 9, 2018

    AMC

    Your stated aim is to live in a litigation-free world - a curious goal for a lawyer. Please describe Taintong’s mission and culture.

    您曾说您的愿景是生活在一个无讼的世界,这对律师来说是一个与众不同的目标。请您谈谈天同的使命和文化。

    Jiang Yong:There are couplets hanging in the main hall of our Siheyuan, saying if only everyone is litigation-free, it doesn’t matter that we are at an idle end. Just like good doctors won’t hope people get ill, we believe the value of a lawyer is helping people solve and avoid disputes. The mission of Tiantong is to participate in the construction of a legal ecosystem with more fairness and justice, and our culture is lead by the values of dedication, passion for excellence, innovation and openness. We expect to be a more constructive force in the legal ecosystem, maximize the value of lawyers, and make our contribution to the better realization of fairness and justice.

    蒋勇:我们四合院的正厅挂有这样一副对联:“但愿人无讼,何妨我独闲。”就像好的医生不会期待人们生病一样,我们相信,律师最大的价值在于帮助人们解决和避免纠纷。天同的使命是"参与打造一个更加公平正义的法律生态圈",文化中则贯彻了"专注、极致、创新、开放"的价值观。我们期待成为法律生态圈中一支更具建设性的力量,最大限度地发挥律师的价值,让公平正义更好地实现。

    AMC

    Please describe the locations and the unusual design features of Tiantong’s offices in China and their rationale.

    请谈谈天同办公场所的选址和独特的设计特征,以及这背后的理念。

    Jiang Yong:I always believe that architecture is the best expression of brand. As a law firm concentrating on complex commercial and civil dispute resolution, we hope to express our passion for excellence through architectures. So, in Beijing, we choose the unique Siheyuan near the Forbidden City. In Nanjing, we choose the top floor of the famous Jin Ling Hotel’s Asia Pacific Business Building. In Shenzhen, we choose the top office of Ping An Financial Center, which is the 4th highest building in the world, to build the highest law firm in the world. In Chongqing, we choose the 52th floor of the World Financial Center to build the highest law firm in west China… All branch offices follow the same decoration style, presenting our ambition to build a law firm of integration across the nation.

    蒋勇:我一直相信,建筑是品牌的最高表现形式。作为一家专注于高端民商事争议解决的精品所,我们也希望通过建筑,把我们的精专气质凸显出来。所以,在北京,我们选择了独具特色的精致四合院作为办公场所;在南京,我们选择了著名的金陵饭店的亚太商务楼最高层;在深圳,我们选择了世界第四高楼平安金融中心的写字楼最高层,打造世界最高的律师事务所;在重庆,我们选择了环球金融中心52层,建设西部最高律所……各地天同分所都采用统一的装修风格,这其实也体现着我们建设全国一体化律所的决心与信念。

    AMC

    Tiantong has a higher winning rate among all Chinese law firms before the Supreme Court and various high courts of China - what factors do you think contribute to the firm’s success?

    在所有中国律所中,天同是代理最高法院二审、再审案件业绩最出色的律师事务所之一。您认为是什么因素造就了天同的成功?

    Jiang Yong:I think the achievements we get today owe to our dedication. As I always said, dedication is the best gift in life, which could show us different sceneries. We concentrate on complex commercial and civil dispute resolution, so that we can explore it deeply, build our organization structure and business mode around it, and find the best way to deal with it. Thanks to our efforts continuously spent on such one thing in the past 16 years, we do it better and better.

    蒋勇:如果说今天的天同取得了一些引人注目的成绩,我想这都要归功于我们的专注。我常说,专注是人生最好的礼物,它让我们可以看到不一样的风景。正是因为我们专注在高端民商事争议解决领域,我们才可以深入地研究它,围绕这个单点搭建整套组织架构和业务模式,真正把它做透。十余年磨一剑,我们才可以把它磨得更锋利。

    AMC

    Tiantong is noted for hiring graduates from China’s top universities rather than lateral hires and yet also has the highest per lawyer revenues in China. Please describe how technology and the Millennial Generation / Generation Z are shaping Tiantong’s practice of law. Do you subscribe to the view that ‘law is a team sport’?

    大家注意到,天同倾向于从中国的顶级大学中招聘毕业生而不是做横向招聘,同时,天同拥有中国律所中最高的律师人均创收。请您谈谈科技和千禧世代是如何塑造天同的法律实践的。您是否同意“法律是一项团队运动”的观点?

    Jiang Yong:The young generation brings energy and spirit of innovation to Tiantong’s legal practice. Their skillful use of technology and tools help Tiantong’s Three Magic Weapon of Litigation, especially the Visualization and Big Data of Cases, achieves better development. Growing up in the era of information explosion, they naturally have strong ability of information searching and processing, which is part of the essence of legal service. Also, their broad vision and interdisciplinary knowledge help them cope better with the cross-border challenge concerning issues of other fields.

    I totally agree that law is a team sport, and our business mode is just built on that idea. Traditionally, one lawyer deals with the whole process of a case alone, but now we break the process into different parts and handle it through teamwork. Secretaries deal with routine work, assistants to litigator deal with supplementary matters such as legal research, litigators determine litigation strategy, and partners lead the whole program. In this way, we make legal service more efficient.

    蒋勇:年轻一代给天同的法律实践注入了很多活力和创新精神。他们对于科技和工具的应用,让天同的“三大诉讼法宝”,尤其是其中的案例大数据和诉讼可视化得到了更好的应用与发展。他们在这个信息爆炸的时代成长起来,天然地拥有更强的信息搜集和处理能力,而法律服务的本质恰恰就是信息的处理与传递。除此之外,他们视野开阔,拥有很多跨学科的知识,这也让他们在处理涉及其他专业领域的问题时,可以更好地迎接跨界的挑战。

    我非常认同法律是一项团队运动的观点,这恰好也是我们搭建业务结构的基础理念。在传统的诉讼业务中,会由一位律师独立完成整个过程。我们则把它拆分开来,交由一个团队来完成。我们像管理项目那样管理案件处理过程,由业务秘书处理事务性工作;辅庭律师完成法律检索、图表制作、文件起草等辅助性事项;出庭律师确定代理思路,查验和完善辅庭律师的工作成果;再由合伙人把控整个项目的进度和质量。通过团队中多种角色的分工协同,我们可以让法律服务更加高效。

    AMC

    Tiantong first came to our attention with regards to the firm’s embracement of technology and Social Media, including having over 400,000 WeChat subscribers to the firm’s content. Please describe both the genesis and development of these innovations.

    我们第一次注意到天同是因为天同对科技和社交媒体的充分应用,其中就包括天同拥有超过40万订阅用户的微信公众号。请谈谈这些创新的缘起和发展状况。

    Jiang Yong:Such innovations are closely linked with our spirit of openness and sharing. We are always glad to share our experience, progress together with our industry, and make contribution to our legal ecosystem. The rising of mobile Internet perfectly corresponds to such spirit. When we share our experience through articles, people who are interested in this field gather around naturally. Valuable and useful content can be communicated widely and accurately in this age. It is the constant high-quality sharing that makes us recognized by loads of legal practitioners.

    蒋勇:这些创新是和天同的开放分享精神紧密相关的。我们始终乐于把我们的经验分享出来,与行业共同进步,为打造更加公平正义的法律生态圈贡献力量。这个时代兴起的移动互联网传播,恰恰与这样的分享精神极度契合。当我们把我们的经验写成一篇篇干货文章,同样关注这个领域的人就会被吸引过来。真正有用有料的内容可以在这个时代得到广泛而精准的传播。正是持续的高品质分享让我们得到了众多法律人的关注和认可。

    AMC

    In the past, most of Tiantong’s cases have been referrals from other private practice lawyers rather than directly from clients. As In-House teams have grown in size and sophistication, do you see a change in who engages you?

    过去,大多数天同的案件都是来自于其他执业律师的推荐,而不是直接来自于客户。随着公司法务团队在规模和成熟程度方面的成长,你是否看到了这方面的一些变化?

    Jiang Yong:The source of our cases differs in different periods. In the earliest period, we got most cases directly from in-House. Afterwards, since more and more lawyersrecognizedour proficiency, they were glad to refer cases to us or invite us to collaborate with them. The amount of cases referred by lawyers gradually grows up to nearly the same with cases from in-House. In recent years, as our influence among in-house community grows, many in-house counsels prefer to contact with us directly. Such cases increase obviously as a result.

    蒋勇:我们的案件来源在不同时期其实不大相同。最早的时候,直接来自于公司法务的案件占了绝大部分。后来,来自同行合作的案件量开始增加。许多律师同行相信我们更加专业,会愿意把案件机会介绍给我们,或者邀请我们合作代理案件。来自律师同行的案件和来自公司法务的案件逐渐发展到差不多各占一半。近年来,随着我们在公司法务群体中影响力的增加,的确也有越来越多的法务会直接找到我们,这样的案件又出现了明显的增加。

    AMC

    Jiang Yong, your career prior to founding Tiantong included being a judge on the Chinese Supreme Court. Do you think that this perspective allowed you to recognize business opportunities in Chinese litigation that was not appreciated by your corporate law peers?

    蒋勇,您在创立天同前,曾经在中国最高人民法院担任法官。您是否认为这一视角帮助您识别出中国诉讼业务中曾经不被您的律师同行看好的商业机会?

    Jiang Yong:Yes. When I was in the Supreme Court, I found many lawyers didn’t have comprehensive cognition towards litigation. The idea that competition in litigation is the competition of Guanxi was quite popular at that time. But I knew that although the legal environment did have drawbacks, it was progressing as a whole. In most cases, lawyers lost cases not because of the malpractice of justices, but the bad job did by themselves. They failed to persuade the judge. I believed if we put efforts in developing litigation skills, there would be vast market place, and that was why we developed Three Magic Weapon of Litigation in later years.

    Actually, along with the promotion of judicial reform in China, judges’ independent judgmentis increasingly valued, and lawyers’ ability to persuade judges becomes more important accordingly. We have been well prepared for that already. It’s just like buying stocks at a low point and waiting for its increasing.

    蒋勇:是的。在最高人民法院的时候,我发现很多律师对诉讼的认知是不全面的。当时律师行业里流传着一句话,叫“打官司就是打关系”。但是我知道,虽然当前的法治环境存在着一些不尽如人意的地方,但是总体上是在进步的。很多时候,律师之所以没有取得理想的结果,不是因为法官枉法裁判,而是因为律师没有做好本职工作,没有真正说服法官。如果我们在诉讼技术上下功夫,诉讼业务领域将会有极大的空间,所以我们后来提出了“三大诉讼法宝”。

    事实上,随着中国司法改革的推进,主审法官负责制和“让审理者裁判,由裁判者负责”的理念让法庭变得更加重要。需要法官独立做决断的情况越来越多,律师的出庭能力也就越来越突显重要性,而我们已经为此做好了准备。这和股票买在低点,等着它上涨其实是一个道理。

    AMC

    Who is your mentor?

    您的导师是谁?

    Jiang Yong:When I was in the third year of university, I followed Lawyer Tian Wenchang for practical practice. He is a famous criminal defense lawyer in China, and the way he works influenced me a lot. As to the law firm management, I learn a lot from McKinsey. The idea of Three Magic Weapon of Litigation is just inspired by them. When noticing they abstracted many common tools and ways out of personalized consulting business, I believe we can do similar things in the field of litigation. Besides, in the process of Tiantong’s national expansion, McKinsey’s understanding towards integration and their specific measures also inspire me a lot.

    蒋勇:我在本科三年级的时候曾经跟着田文昌律师实习。他是中国著名的刑辩大律师,他的工作理念和行事风格深刻地影响了我。在律所管理方面,我受麦肯锡的影响很深。“三大诉讼法宝”的提出就是受到麦肯锡的启发。看到他们从个性化的咨询业务中提炼出很多通用的工具和方法,我想诉讼领域应该也是一样。在天同全国一体化扩张的过程中,麦肯锡对于一体化的理解和他们的具体举措也给了我很多启发。

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